Closed professions
Does the panel agree with Alan Milburn that Britain’s professions remain a "closed shop"?
Published:
Thursday, 23 July, 2009, 20:51 GMT
21:51 UK
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All comments as they come in
Added:
Friday, 24 July, 2009, 17:32 GMT
18:32 UK
I am a qualified Careers Adviser with 25 years experience. I work for Connexions, which Mr Milburn has been very publicly and sneeringly critical of on the back of his report.
What he fails to say is that it was the Labour government which scrapped the world respected Careers Service, re-branded it as Connexions and forced it to target most of its resources at the 'hardest to help'
We said it wouldn't work. They didn't listen.
Now they have the cheekl to blame US!
You couldn't make it up!
Colin, Liverpool, UK, England,
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Added:
Friday, 24 July, 2009, 15:53 GMT
16:53 UK
On subject of Grammar Schools,Baroness Williams gave her predictable response - four fifths fail the 11-plus ( more actually ) implying she and Tony Crosland were right to demolish them. However, whilst she always cries tears for those who fail it, she never sheds one drop for all those clever boys and girls in 'sink estates' at bog comprehensives who waste away in them because they are dragged down in an under - achieving educational system. The top professions were open to those kids then.
alan crowther, Carlisle, UK, England,
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Added:
Friday, 24 July, 2009, 11:44 GMT
12:44 UK
Yes there is a lack of social mobility today. Why? Because many parents don't instill into their children the basic social and interpersonal skills needed to help them through school and on to a worthwhile career path.
There is a growing number of children who lack these skills, can't speak properly, or read or write or conduct themselves in a reasonable way in public. The fault lies with their parent(s) for not taking responsibility and making these children virtually unemployable.
Janet, London, UK, England,
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Added:
Friday, 24 July, 2009, 10:27 GMT
11:27 UK
The decrease in social mobility has nothing to do with class sizes (class sizes have been getting smaller). The problem is due to the dumbing down of educational standard which means that bright people from poor backgrounds can no longer distinguish themselves. The solution is to being back rigour in exam standards and in state school teaching.
Jonathan Davies, London, UK, England,
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Added:
Friday, 24 July, 2009, 09:35 GMT
10:35 UK
I wish Clive James could have followed up on his comment to Shirley Williams about Grammar Schools. She said they were unfair because only 1/5 of children got in. This was the whole point that only the best got in. They got in on merit not money. More could get in by building more grammar schools, not less, and having 12
Dr P Brewer, Looe, UK, England,
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Added:
Friday, 24 July, 2009, 09:34 GMT
10:34 UK
As long as (some) people have a "choice" of education systems based on money, you will fundamentally continue to have the issues that are so sadly reflected in the report. Not only do you create an "intellectual" upperclass who has an arrogant attitude towards the less educated but you also waste huge potential of human resources. This might explain why Britain is one of the poorer countries in Europe in every indicator of well-being.A very poor record for a society that claims to be "modern".
Pol van Steelant, Cardiff, UK, Wales,
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Added:
Friday, 24 July, 2009, 09:19 GMT
10:19 UK
It is not just the schooling. It is who you know not what you know. Another fact is that the graduate job numbers has not increased at the same pace as the number of graduates. Manufacturing has been largely wiped out. IT jobs are being outsourced to other cheaper countries. There are fewer opportunities. Many graduates have to start at a lower level. How can a person do an unpaid internship if they live far away from London ? Also disability and ethinicity are still factors.
Abdul, Woking, UK, England,
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Added:
Friday, 24 July, 2009, 09:18 GMT
10:18 UK
I am amazed at Shirley Williams saying that 4/5ths of secondary school children were abandoned. I thought she was an intelligent woman. The children who went to Secondary Modern or Technical Schools are the backbone of this country. We need plumbers, joiners, cabinet makers and electricians as much as we need doctors and lawyers. Plumbers in this part of the world earn more than dentists. It is just that
accademic requirements of the 'Professions' are more rigorous which dosn't suit everyone.
John Martin, Prestbury, UK, England,
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Added:
Friday, 24 July, 2009, 24:08 GMT
01:08 UK
Clive James was absolutely right when he said that the loss of Grammar Schools reduced social mobility. Unfortunately he was not ready for Shirley Williams' answer, one which she had clearly rehearsed for years. Surely even she should have realised by now that the only answer was to keep the best (Grammar Schools and high class Universities) and put the money to provide top class secondary education for the rest, most of whom did not have an academic bent in any case,.
Ian McFarland, Waterlooville, UK, England,
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Added:
Thursday, 23 July, 2009, 23:22 GMT
00:22 UK
I feel the problem with working class children not getting the kind of education that leads to better paid jobs is so often that nothing is expected of them; neither by parents nor teachers. (Their parents were not encouraged to discover their gifts, so nobody expects anything of them either).
Many feel it is better for them not to try than to be rejected, as rejection is a greater killer of self esteem than underachievement.
This is not a head problem, but rather one to do with the heart.
Irene McWatt, Gillingham, UK, England,
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Added:
Thursday, 23 July, 2009, 23:03 GMT
00:03 UK
Astounded to hear Shirley Williams going on about the 'old school network'. When she was Labour Sec., of State for Education she had the audacity to send her children to private school! This was when Labour had dismantled Grammar Schools- the only way , it seems, that working class(bright pupils) could become upwardly mobile!
Josie Hopkins, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, England,
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Added:
Thursday, 23 July, 2009, 22:59 GMT
23:59 UK
my son is 1st yr Glasgow Uni, and got 3mnth internship in USA = paid. He coulnd't ttake it up, as he, his brother and I care for his severely disabled sister of 15yrs, and our local authority refused to give her 2wks respite so that my other son could have a break. My daughter is assessed 2:1 for care, so I cannot work = it takes all 3 of us to care for her, me always and her brothers in rotation. If my sons did not share her care, she would BE in 'care' - much more expensive than 2wks respite.
jennifer, Glasgow, UK, Scotland,
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Added:
Thursday, 23 July, 2009, 22:51 GMT
23:51 UK
Perhaps it is best if universities are not informed of educational background, and admissions should be based on qualifications and experience. There is all this talk of universities and jobs being pro-public school but in reality this is not true. Many have an 'positive discrimination' towards those from state sectors. Top uni's like Bristol, Oxbridge and Durham are actually now more anti-public school, leaving many academically excellent students from public schools massively discriminated.
Dominic, Reigate, UK, England,
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Added:
Thursday, 23 July, 2009, 22:50 GMT
23:50 UK
How tragic for social mobility in Britain that both major parties and the Liberal Democrats have abandoned the grammar schools.
A grammar school in every town and appropriate and properly funded and resourced education for those with different skillsets would reverse the trend of recent years.
Nick Singer, Maidstone, UK, England,
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Added:
Thursday, 23 July, 2009, 22:46 GMT
23:46 UK
As the doctor (q2001) son of a doctor(q1973), who is the son of a doctor (q1942), who is the son of a doctor (q1901) who is the son of a builder, I have the solution to Alan Milburn's concerns about closed professions - generations should alternate, so that the son of a doctor becomes a street sweeper and the son a street sweeper a doctor and so on. If professions appear closed it is because of the explosion of professionalism in the 1980s and New Labour's failure to improve state education.
CL, London, UK, England,
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Total comments: 35
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